An interview with Wayne Coyne, March 1996

This is from 1996, before the show at Birmingham (in the UK). It's just a transcript of parts of what mutated from an interview into a conversation.....

(I aplogised to Wayne for the first three proper questions, but asked them anyway, simply to provide him with the chance to put down his answer to some annoyingly common dumb misconceptions about the band........)

Drew: Are drugs an important part of your existence and music:

Wayne: Naw, we don't do any more than anyone else. People think we must take them all the time and record our records on drugs and stuff but.. no...

Drew: So, you're not a psychedelic band then - whatever that means:

Wayne: No, no... people seem to associate the event of your imagination veering away from whatever is `normal' to like "Oh, that's because they take drugs, or whatever.... Or any time that you seem to veer into anything that has maybe a couple of melodies going on, people seem to think that's psychedelic. and, well, sure - if you think that's what psychedelic is. To me, I've always thought of psychedelic as being... you know - kinda Grateful Dead and stuff like that. So, I don't really think of us as being sort of psychedelic. We just like to do lots of different types of songs - just.........

Drew: Interesting stuff?

Wayne: yeah!

Drew: So, why do you write songs about animals and jelly and stuff:

Wayne: I just think that there should be no limit, you know.... there shouldn't be any one thing that you either write about or won't write. I just see it as a limitless sort of thing - you can write about anything you want. I don't see any reason why people..

A passing `Witch': Oh, sorry..is this an interview? ask him about Led Zeppelin:

Wayne: Maybe we should ask you some questions... do you wanna be interviewed?

Witch: (sanitised version)

Ricky the guitar tech: She's a Witch.....

Wayne: You're a witch? What does that mean?

Witch: It means nothing.

Ricky: She has the books - on black magic and stuff, witchcraft.

Witch: I'm not a witch...

Wayne: You have the books .. you read the books.. I don't

Witch: (leaving) Go away....

Wayne: (turning back to dictophone)... no, I think it's a valid question. Bands often seem to have a sort of agenda - what they sing about and talk about and stuff...

Drew: So, yours is to have fun then?

Wayne: Nah,... not really to have fun. Just that it should be a limitless sort of thing. That you should be able to have all kinds of emotions, all kinds of ideas - why be just limited to what people think rock and roll should be about.

Drew: Like complaining and stuff:

Wayne: Right.. it can be complex. It can be a billion things. So we just try to make songs out of whatever comes to our minds. But it's not like the first thing we think of, we think `Oh, that's a great song' because we do try to work hard whenever we get ideas and stuff. But so far as subjects we talk or write about - it could be anything.

Drew: You seem to like playing live a lot. Whenever I read any American press, you're always on tour somewhere:

Wayne: Yeah, I know... it's not so much like we always do it - it's just what bands do. You make a record and then you.......

Drew: Tour it?

Wayne: Tour, yeah.

Drew: Do you like touring in general then:

Wayne: Oh, you know.. I think there are elements that are a lot of fun, nut then it's like anything - when you do it a whole bunch all the time, it gets kind of tiring and you wanna go do something else. Sometimes it's a lot of fun, sometimes it's kind of a drag - but you take the good with the bad and it's never really that horrible. it it was ever really horrible we would just go home, you know...

Drew: I guess it could be worse... you're not laying bricks in winter or anything:

Wayne: Right - in a lot of ways we're really lucky to be able to the kind of thing music we do and have any kind of audience at all really. 'Cos it's sort of.. really, there isn't any hope of becoming any kind of a mainstream success. It just seems that we're lucky to have any kind of an audience at all. and a record companty that puts out our records and all that stuff.

Drew: So, are you looking forward to a UK tour - you've not played here much in the past.

Wayne: Yeah, I know.. we hardly ever have. The last two or three years we've come over and done festivals, but we haven't toured in Europe that much at all. We toured Germany years ago and then we did this Chili Peppers tour this year. But we've been over here a bunch and not played any small shows and stuff but yeah I like it and we know a lot of people in London and stuff so it's easy.

Drew: You guys seem to live for music:

Wayne: Of course.. we do. But we're not like disciplined or anything in that sort of way. and we are able to do it, and that's the thing - we don't have to scrape together money and time - this is what we do. But sometimes it gets to be too much - like when we were making our last record. We had really come off a couple of years of making a record and touring and doing an ep and touring and touring and then as soon as we got done we had already scheduled time to make another record. And we were pretty tired of of the whole process even before the last record. But not idea wise - just always having to do that - you know, it's a lot of people's time and money and people's schedules and it's hard. Especially after doing it consistently for a couple of years or so - but we kinda knew that we would and even when we get done with this tour, we go home and we play about three weeks worth of shows in the 'states and go out with the Jesus Lizard at the beginning of the summer and then I think we head back over here for some festvials again.
So until July or whatever this is just what we do - and some of it will be great and some of it will suck but.. you know...

Drew: Has the new record lived up to expectations:

Wayne: Oh..yeah - everything in the last couple of years has gone past anything we ever expected. I really don't expect people to like our stuff at all. People get used to knowing what music should sound like and ours, well, just, uh.....

Drew: Does what it likes?

Wayne: Yeah.. it just goes all over the place and ahh... So anytime I see a good review or whatever, I'm thankful but i never take it seriously although I'm glad.
But when people get into it, then that's the best thing in the world that music can do - we've never eally looked at ourselves aswanting to be `big'. I mean, in the UK that's what being a band is all about. It's all this, like, success and charts and all -but while that exists in America, there's this whole other sub-level where people just want to play at their own level and make records and play to a whole different audience. And that's sorta where we come from - we never wanted to be on the cover of Billboard magazine or to be in Melody Maker. it's just really not our trip you know... And the fact that there's enough people out there to create a popularity is great. and if tomorrow everbody forgot about us then that's okay

Drew: You've had a good few years at least:

Wayne: Yeah, we make weird music - we don't expect MTV to play us every day.

Drew: Where did you get your name? I've heard a lot of rumours:

Wayne: I don't know what you've heard but we just made it up one day - there was never any story. People tell me about things that were supposed to have happened but there was never any story... people think we must have had these bizarre experiences but we're just normal guys. We just make up stuff, and at the time we thought it was a pretty stupid name but we went by it and we thought it was only gonna last a summer and we always thought we'd just think of somethin' else. We NEVER thought this was the only band we were gonna be in. This is the only thing I've ever done and I never figured it would have any appeal. We just like to play wierd music - and doesn't everybody? You know what I mean? And the fact that we've been able to keep doin' it - for the sort of thing that we do we've made TONS of money and I sometimes think `God, it's just not fair'. And I see so many bands out there who do good music, who care about what they do and then I see so much shit, you know.......

Drew: You've toured with a lot of `big' bands... you must have seen a lot of stuff:

Wayne: Yeah, it's not fair at all.

Drew: So, do you have any ideas of where you're heading when you make a record - or do you just go and see what happens:

Wayne: Erm... I think it's like most peoples lives - i think that you really have a..........
When you ask people what they like, sometimes they hesitate but they can tell you a list of a thousand things they hate. But there is music we love.. and when we go make a record, we never really like what we do but we dwindle it down to stuff we know we don't hate. and if we're like `We don't hate that' then we'll keep it for a while. We try to get away from what we hate and stick with the things that end up being on the tape.
But it's not like we go in there clueless - we have songs and ideas and new ways of approaching songs because, after you've made six or seven albums, if you keep writing them in the same way it would get boring.

Drew: So, do you ever go into the studio thinking `Let's use different instruments or whatever..':

Wayne: Well, we would never do it for the sake of it..

Drew: But just for a change you might decide to do it in a song or something:

Wayne: Oh, of course. We always like to try different things - and every song we do is really even different from the next one, in the way we approach it. But we're guilty like everyone else of doing stuff just to get away from being stuck. Like `Oh, guitar is boring - why don't we use some other things'. And people say that guitar is dead but honestly guitar is neither alive nor dead - no instrument ever is - it's the ideas in your head, it's what you're doing. and I try to remember those sorts of things because it's too easy to be like `Ah boy, these guitars - they get boring' and it's NOT the guitars, it's your fuckin' ideas you know. And that's really us just trying to get ideas and push concepts of what you can do with music and bands. And if people like it then fine because we don't look at our own stuff and go `Yeah, we're doing experimental stuff here and we're weird.' It's just what we do and there's plenty of other bands out there we think are great you know...

Drew: Do you think it's gonna keep going for ever, or what:

Wayne: Oh, I hope so. We wouldn't wanna do it if we got in a situation where we didn't like what was happening or if it was embarassing to keep going. But I hope that the idea of a rock band can change to where it isn't just this vehicle for views and revolution and all that - which is good sometimes, but mostly is just bullshit...

Drew: All so packaged:

Wayne: Yeah, it comes packaged - with haircuts and fashion and all that crap, you know. But I hope that sooner or later that it can be just about music and ideas and hopefully, in that way, we can keep thinking of ways to do different things. I'd love to be able to do this as long as I'd like to do it - until I'm ninety or whatever. Sure, but I'm not sure what that means - maybe we come over here and tour , play rock clubs - whatever, but sure we'd like to. It must be horrible for bands to be popular and then just a few years later to be `washed up' - they're often just young guys.

Drew: The three year lifespan:

Wayne: Yeah, I was talkin to the guy from the Soup Dragons just the other day, and then we were talkin about how Soup Dragons are washed up. Yet I think that in the big picture they're still young guys and this is terrible. They're not like sixty years old where they can't pick up their guitars - it must be really sad - and we could be in the same boat. But at the same time, I don't think like `We're young and we have to look good and be angry' or whatever. Music really can be about anything - it doesn't have any limits. I really hope the bogus lifestyle can change and all the hype and stuff goes and that the people who are really interested in music can overcome all that. I look at someone like Tom Waits - I don't like everything he does - but I look at him and it's like... great the way he does it.

Drew: He does what he wants to do..

Wayne: Yeah, sometimes I think about people like Paul McCartney. What he does is kinda embarrasing.

Drew: Yeah, this man was in the Beatles and he wrote some really cool songs.

Wayne: Oh, great shit - yeah.

Drew: But what is he doing now? Have you heard the new Beatles song?

Wayne: Oh, they still wanna be in the Beatles and it's sad. It's just a pity that sometimes people are more interested in the fame and attention than really they are in the music or whatever. Paul McCartney at one time was all about music and ideas and so on - and it's really sad to need to be in the limelight. I hope we can always make good music and keep being interesting or whatever.

Drew: So, you're not starting to feel old yet then?

Wayne: Oh, I do feel old sometimes, I do - like when I was sick. I know I'm old, but I never look at it like it matters - it's not like it's sports or anything. It's about music and ideas. I don't see it as a competition. I think that's sad and I wish more people would think in a way so that bands can be allowed to change and do different things.

Drew: Is there any music that really excites you at the moment then? Stuff you listen to - I know you were big on Smog a while back:

Wayne: Oh yeah, well - the whole indie thing that was going on in America the last three years or so - I think a lot of that was really good but now it's real repetetive. Bands are indie now because it's like noble to not be on a major label or something and a lot of them really just want to rip off Pavement or a load of other bands. So, even though that scene seemed to be really vibrant, now it seems stale and stuck in the same place. But there's always good things - and I don't think of records as having to be brand new to be interesting. We listen to old stuff we listen to new stuff. We listen to anything that's available - last night we listened to Glen Campbell's greatest hits and Stevie wonder today... just all kinds of stuff - it's endless.

Drew: So, is it a big influence on what you make yourself, or does your whole life experience sort of thing go into the writing:

Wayne: There is a fine line, I think, between what you're listening to not neccessarily influencing you in what you're making. But you listen to what you like and you wanna make music that you like - so it's hard not to crossover the two.

Drew: Is your favourite number `a million':

Wayne: (laughs) I do like a million.... I do.

Drew: I've noticed this in your songs and interviews:

Wayne: Yeah, it's a great word, and I like words a lot. And that's a great one for sure.

Drew: Do you like interviews:

Wayne: Ah.. I like interviews with people who are interested in music and stuff. I do a lot of interviews with people who are just on the periphery of popular music and it's like (adopts squeaky voice) "Oh, Flaming Lips - you were on that Batman Soundtrack. What's it like to be on a record with U2?" and I'm like "Well, we're on it and they're on it...." - you know what I mean? And some of that gets kind of tough 'cos I don't want to ever be condescending to people but sometimes people just aren't very knowledgable of music. Then it's like (the voice again), "Oh, I saw you on MTV... I like your song" - but at the same time, I don't wanna make fun of anybody.

Drew: It must get kind of tiring:

Wayne: But I'm never too tired to talk to people about music and stuff, although sometimes you get some people who really just want to talk about themselves and you want to be nice and so it ends up like, "That's great, if you have an interesting life I'd be really glad to hear about it..." Anyway, I don't mind good interviews for sure - I get to talk to you about what you're into and stuff and that's great.. you know?

Drew: Yeah, so will evil really prevail?

Wayne: Well you know, that's a weird sentiment in that song because it really does in a way. And that song is sort of written in a code for all the nice people in the world - you know what I mean? 'Cos if someone came up to you and said, "I thought about goin' up to this old lady in the street, walkin pathetically slow in front of me, and slapping her. Saying like `get the fuck out of the way'." But you don't do it. In your mind there's always things you can do with an immediate repsonse - you could kill somebody there, push somebody out of the way, or be mean to people - and it does get you what you want, right away. Like you could steal things and stuff like that. So, knowing the easy way is there, then its much harder to be a kind, patient person. And I think that's the struggle - so if you don't know what evil is , then it's easy to be tempted.. you know? And the true evils of the world are just so damn effective.

Drew: Like if you want something, then it's usually the easiest way....

Wayne: Yeah, if you want something just go get a gun and take it, especially in America now - like on the block where I live. There's gangs and shit and I see it all. But I don't blame people for thinkin' of those ways - it really does have the desired effect but it I think this is the struggle.
So, I don't really know what `Evil Will Prevail' is saying - I don't know if the song says that to do evil is wrong or to try to like people is right.

Drew: So, you're asking a question.....

Wayne: Just putting those together and saying, `I don't know'.

Drew: Well, at the end of the day who knows what is actually right:

Wayne: Well, it's your own trip - myself I'd much prefer people to be kind and try to be nice to each other, especially for my own sake. And when people say, "So, are you into peace and love?", I'm like, "Well, I'm into peace and love as opposed to fuckin' hatred and war - who wouldn't be?" I'm not into peace and love exclusively - I'm into all kinds of things but it's good to have people who love yer, take care of yer and to be nice to people.

Drew: Great. Well, I don't have much else to ask you - so is there anything else you'd like to say?

Wayne: Just thanks to anybody who likes our music and stuff. I mean, really - I really do applaud our audience because sometimes it is a struggle to sort of know where we're goin and care and stuff. i just think it's great that our audience is a lot like us, unlike a lot of bands who go out and play and come back sayin, "Our audience is a bunch of idiots," and they really hate playin for them. We go out and play and our audience is full of people who're just like us - we start playin obscure covers and they already know them and it's sort of like `Oh, cool - that's great', you know... And we run into people afterwards who are really interested in music and stuff as opposed to (that voice again), "Oh, we saw you guys on MTV." We get bands and music people comin' to se us, whose stuff we like too. We went to Japan, and the Boredoms came and saw us and just last week, when I was sick, Steve Malkmus from Pavement was drivin cross-country and he stopped by my house for the weekend. And these are the things that make life so great now - these are musicians who I love, musically. Just to be in that music community is great.

Drew: Being able to hang out at people's shows must be a real kick:

Wayne: Yeah - you can stand onstage and watch your favourite bands and that's the best thing of it, you know. And all those things that people think are so important - like the charts. Well, I don't know how people can give a shit about that. Most of these bands suck - I hate that when people envy stuff like chart success. I don't care - I think these bands, their music ideas are fuckin' stupid. I don't need them at all. So, anyone who is a fan of our music - the applause goes to them for keepin us alive and keepin the whole idea of what's goin on - so that we don't have to settle for this same old shit every day. we can work on some different shit and maybe people will support it and stuff. We're livin' proof of that - people will support something different once in a while. It's great bein' a Flaming Lip because of it.